Thursday, January 12, 2012

Conversation with an Atheist - Part 1

Last night a chat that started out about the weather and the possible problems our warm dry winter could bring for next summer turned to matters of religion.  Lemontie Piaire is someone I know only online but our conversation was stimulating, intriguing and surprising.  I think you'll be surprised, too.

Picking it up from that turning point:

Lemontie:  Are you a Mormon?
Kathy:  I am.
Lemontie:  I know a few of them down here.  Used to work with one... loved the debates we had.  I am an Atheist.
Kathy:  Well... when we die one of us is going to be surprised!
Lemontie:  Yep, one of us will.  I believe in the life force of the universe.  When we die we just change to a different form of life.  I believe that the universe is god and all things in it make it up as a whole.
Kathy:  Like reincarnation?  A cruel master comes back as a dog to learn unconditional love and such...
Lemontie:  Not at all like that.  I believe that we alternate between different dimensions in time.  There is anti- and positive matter.
Kathy:  So instead of coming back to this particular earth, or dimension, we move on to a different one?
Lemontie:  What you call our souls do, but it's our life force.  Our body just holds it to this dimension until it dies.  We transfer to the other dimension when the body dies.  Heaven and hell were created by man... as population control.
Kathy:  We agree then.  Our bodies hold our spirits.  Heaven and hell, and our place in one or the other, is of our own creation.  But... explain what you mean by population control.
Lemontie:  To force people to control themselves... subdue animalistic behaviors.
Kathy:  So the idea of heaven and hell is a form of behavior control?
Lemontie:  Yes.
Kathy:  Much of an animal's behavior is about eating and mating.  A lot of religious folks have large families.
Lemontie:  Some non-religious people do as well.  And some religions preach to have big families.
Kathy:  Well... to those who read and believe in the Bible, God has never retracted the commandment to populate the earth.
Lemontie:  ...but that was developed after the plague that was like to wipe people off the planet forever.   And is a perfect example of religion being used to control mankind's behavior in order to achieve their will.
Kathy:  Interesting thought.
Lemontie:  No people, no money.  No people, no one to do their work for them.
Kathy:  I can see your point.
Lemontie:  Even now our government leaders use religion to manipulate votes.  Also to cloud the real issues that need to be resolved for equality of life and avoid the stopping of the haves and have nots.  They're starting to infect the churches and cause confusion and hate in the churches toward the poor.  Predjudice and stereo-typing.  If there really was a god, he wouldn't permit that.
Kathy:  But... if man is nothing more than a controlled animal, as you say, take those controls away and he'd return to those old animalistic behaviors and patterns and we'd have even more exaggerated have and have not social classes.
Lemontie:  Man is what man is.  Education has made him think.  Evolution has made him change.
Kathy:  But you just said man is a controlled animal...
Lemontie:  Sometimes the basic instinct comes out in even the most perfect of us.  We are all animals to a degree.  Humans have just evolved into a high functioning one.  One that can reason with more ability to design and not accept the limits of what can be created.
Kathy:  I disagree that man is purely the sum of evolution.  I believe in God... that He created and ordered the earth, and everything in it... including mankind.  We are His creation.  That's why we have the drive to create. Why we seek order out of chaos.  And He gave man the ultimate gifts of intelligence and the ability to choose how it is used.
Lemontie:  Well, that is your thinking and you have the right to do so... but life has shown me that there is no god.  At least not what you refer to as being a god anyway.  What you call God, I call alien.
Kathy:  And you have the right to choose how you view the world.  We can exchange thoughts about it all day... but I can't change your mind any more than you can change mine.  We have to go with what makes the most sense for us.  And that it's different is ok.
Lemontie:  God is the existence of everything matter and anti-matter.  Study dark matter.  Strings.  It all works together like music.  The only thing that changes, what is created from it, is the note that it plays, so to speak.
Kathy:  I'm somewhat familiar with those theories.  And I've seen some of the Ancient Alien programs.  I concede... it's a logical conclusion in context of what's in the Bible.
Lemontie:  I have thought these things since childhood.  Religion makes no sense other than as a control of mankind's behavior.

To continue on to part 2:

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